According to the attorney for Mary Winkler, the woman who confessed to the murder of her minister husband, is “very confused and overwhelmed” by what’s happening to her. (Video)
She is “very detached, very detached from the gravity of the overall situation, very reserved, very quiet, very confused and overwhelmed,” Steve Forese said on the “Today” show.
Meanwhile, Winkler’s attorney seems to be pushing the idea, in a round about way, that the shooting was some sort of accident. He mentioned that the family was in a “dangerous situation” and in that atmosphere, Winkler shot her husband.
One of Winkler’s defense attorneys, Leslie Ballin, said he hadn’t seen Winkler’s statement to Alabama police, but said he’s not convinced it will amount to a legitimate confession.
“We will be looking at what condition she was held in, if she was without sleep or food, or any pressures that may have been lent (sic) upon her,” Ballin said.
The funeral for Matthew Winkler was held today.
Mourners filed into the Fourth Street Church of Christ Tuesday in Selmer, Tenn., for the funeral of their pastor, who was shot to death.
Police cordoned off streets surrounding the church to keep out the news media.
Matthew Winkler’s family, including his three young daughters, are expected to attend, according to police.
The homicide victim’s father, Dan Winkler — a minister from Huntingdon — is scheduled to officiate at the service.
Related: PDF copy of the arrest warrant and affidavit in the case.
The Latest: Winkler Released from Jail | Winkler Remains Locked Up | Winkler’s Caught Up in Email Scam | Shot Dead Over Family Finances | Winkler: Opening Up | Winkler Attorneys Waive Fees | The Innocent Victims | Winkler Family Fund | Possible Winkler Defense? | Mary Winkler: “Overwhelmed and Confused” | Winkler Vs. the State of Tennessee | She Did It |
Having grown up knowing and caring for the Winkler Family today is a sad day. My heart aches for the precious daughters of this dearly loved man who life was cut so short. I dont care to question why Mary would feel the need to go to such great lenghts as she did in ending his life but Im sure whatever the situation there were other options. Murder should never be a solution to any problem. As she is now very much finding out. Huntingdon will miss Matt.
I too am greatly grieved over the situation, but speaking as a PK to “mourner” (& any others who are judging Mary so harshly): let me just say this: if you’ve never been a PK (and Mary was), nor married to a preacher (and Mary was), much less the one married to the “perfect”, “charismatic”, “we all loved him so much” preacher (and Mary was)–then you have no room to judge her whatsoever. Speaking as one who has lived in that goldfish bowl world ever since I was born, and who suffered its effects throughout all my life up until now, where all looks so “perfect” on the outside–but where more often than not, verbal/emotional/physical and sexual abuse is the norm on the inside, from the “perfect” preacher to his IMperfect family–it is a taste of hell before you die. It makes you want to run the other direction, to do whatever it takes to make sure you escape its chains.
I speak again from experience, both that of my own and that of other PK friends of mine. As to the idea of “whatever the situation I’m sure there were other options”–again, you are showing your ignorance of the “inside” of the preacher’s family. And you are judging Mary by those words, as well; don’t think you are deceiving anybody because you aren’t. I am quite confident that Mary felt there WERE “no other options”, and certainly she’d tried everything she could to get things to change, but when you’re just the wife and/or the children, you don’t mean diddly squat to a power-mad, vain and arrogant “perfect” preacher. You’re just tools to make him look good to the congregation and/or the community. He knows good and well that nobody is going to see what goes on in his house, and also that even if any of the ‘prisoners’ within his jailhouse (the preacher’s house) were to attempt to break out and tell anybody, they would not be believed. EVER. I can attest to this, as I have been attempting to tell the truth about my own “perfect” preacher father for years and years, and guess what: the only people who believe me are my fellow PKs! Because they know the signs, the red flags (and believe you me, if people say that Matthew was a “perfect” preacher, that is a BIG red flag) and because they have undergone the same abuse in their own homes as I did. It’s a rather sad underground ‘family’, that of PKs in the Lord’s church; we speaka de same languige, but we wish others would listen to what we say!
I am very sure Mary tried to get her husband to change, and she tried many,many times. Again, I have seen this over and over in my childhood homes with my parents, and my father just laughing at my mother. And her crying. I’ve also heard similar accounts from fellow PKs. I am also very sure that Mary realized that even if she were to take the children and leave him on grounds of abuse, very, very likely no judge would give her custody of them. She would have to give them back to her husband–because after all, the church members thought so highly of him and spoke so glowingly and rapturously of him; he could do no wrong, he was “perfect”. And he would, of course, be believed over her. After all, she was only the children’s mother. What did SHE know? My mother told me one time that she had thought briefly about doing this herself, but because she knew she would not be allowed to keep us, she gave up the idea. Desperate? You have not the first CLUE about what the word ‘desperate’ means to the unGodly preacher’s wife and children!
I have known Wendell since my childhood, and I am very thankful he did not live to see this. I am very sorry for Matthew’s death, and for the grief for his family, but I do not believe he was guiltless in its taking place. Again, experience bears this out. Preachers in the Lord’s church, unless they are diligent to study the Word and to take it into their hearts as much as they preach it to others, are very, very prone to decide they are up there next to God–indeed, BETTER than God, because they can disobey and flaunt His commands left and right and “nobody will ever find out”, “nobody would believe a thing you say”, etc. etc. I have had these things said to me by my father, and to my mother, and also by other PK’s fathers to themselves and their siblings and mothers. I DO know whereof I speak.
The only thing is, these preachers forget that the Lord IS watching them…He does see and know what they are doing and how they are behaving. And He takes a very dim view of their vainness. Pride is one of the abominations the Lord hates. (Prov. 8:13, Prov. 6:16-19). It is the root of so many other sins.
Yes, Mary is guilty of murder. But what was Matthew guilty of? Whether it ever comes out here on earth or not (along with the hundreds of other sins of preachers against their families that cause terrible and lifelong scars), it will come out at the Great Judgment Day.
Finally, I find it very telling and revealing of “mourner” that he/she says, “Huntingdon will miss Matt.” They won’t miss Mary? Nobody will miss poor, quiet, shy, lonely, fade-into-the-background Mary? and why would that be? Perhaps because she was never given the proper attention by the congregation before this horrible situation happened. Perhaps because nobody took the time to get to know what a precious person she was; after all, when you’re quiet and shy and don’t have “charisma”, who cares about you? Who takes the time needed to get to know the quiet preacher’s wife? Not many, that’s for sure. Not many at all.
Again, I’m speaking from experience, both my own and other PK friends. I watched and saw what church members did to my mother (as well as to us children) and have never forgotten it. I take great pains to try and correct that now, with the local congregation’s preacher’s wife and children. I can’t fix it for my mother and it will haunt me always…but I can help to prevent it happening with another preacher’s wife and as God is my witness, I shall do so.
I wish so very much I could have done this for Mary and her girls. 🙁
Just Another PK
PK, r u saying u wish u could have taken the husband out for bloody mary?
I think PK is saying he/she wishes that he/she could have encouraged and recognized Mary and her children, perhaps given them the attention and support they needed. Maybe then this tragedy could have been avoided. Is that what you meant PK?
Just another member of the Lord’s church
Yes, Lori, that’s exactly what I meant. You understood perfectly. Thank you. I think we can all take a page from this horrible situation and embrace our preachers’ families…not just the preacher himself. Really get to know them, make them feel safe in sharing their hearts with us, the good and the bad, the “looks good” and the not-so-pretty aspects of life. In short, treat them with the Golden Rule–just as we want to be treated.
A preacher’s family has an opportunity to share in the greater good. A wise, loving mother and wife can pass this goal on to her family and should be a helpmeet to her husband. I am very sad for PK whose family had spiritual problems, but all families have them, it’s how they handle them that helps them to grow spiritually. Yes, there are some tough times being a teenager in a preacher’s family, particularly if the preacher has the nerve to preach against sin. Even PK’s rebel, as do elder’s kids. AS a 74 year old PK, I have become stronger through my experiences and still have great love for my deceased parents. If my father had a flaw, it was to feel the plight of the lost so much that he did not spend enough recreational time with his family. I know there must be more dedicated, humble preachers out there who have raised their families well than Just Another PK has met. I pray that she will overcome her resentment. As for Mary Winkler, she also has my prayers, and we know this has to have been a psychological problem. I’m so thankful she did not also snap to the point she took out the children.
I, too, am a preacher’s kid and a preacher’s wife. Unlike PK, I grew up in a wonderful, loving, family. I also enjoy being a preacher’s wife. I did not feel pressured by my parents to be perfect because of who my father was, and I do not feel pressured today to be perfect because I am “the preacher’s wife.” I feel that I have a wonderful life. I am usually surrounded by good, Christian people who are loving and supportive–and my husband is the “perfect preacher.” I can’t imagine being with anyone better.
What I think we all need to be careful of is projecting our own situations upon this one. Just because PK had a terrible experience as a preacher’s kid and wife does not mean that every preacher who is described as “perfect” has some kind of dark side he keeps hidden from the world. On the flip side, just because I have had nothing but good experiences does not negate the fact that some preachers do have problems in their lives. They are human like the rest of us.
I think we must not make speculations that could be harmful to either Matthew or Mary Winkler. Mary is the only one who knows the reason for what she did. Until that reason is revealed, I think all the rest of us can do is to pray for her , her children, and Matthew’s family who are grieving the loss of their son. It is a tragic situation, which tears at my heart.
A blessed PK
Hey – I don’t want to make light of this Winkler affair – but the motivation was most likely “mistaken identity.” I now live in TN, too.
I’m Matthew, and for 22 years I was likewise married to a Mary – and ‘m pretty sure that hardly a day went by that she wouldn’t like to have done me in. By gorry, though, I got lucky and beat feet before that happened.
Yeah – I’m sure – mistaken identity.
I am not isolated in my experiences. I can think of at least ten other PKs right now who have been in the same shoes I had to wear growing up,–if not worse– and cannot seem to get shed of them even now. But I am praying to get shed of them and I am working to do so. When you have people who are other PKs and had a wonderful life and they judge you also, it is less than helpful. I read on another blog that someone who has PKs as friends said that they all had something wrong with them, some eccentricity, some anxiety problem–all due to how they were raised. I found that to be very accurate, as well as telling–again, speaking to my situation and the ten-plus other PKs’ situations. We are flawed, those of us who were raised in an abusive environment plus the goldfish bowl, and we are struggling to make our way in the church as well as in the world. (And by the way, I am 48.) If you have not been where I have been, you should try applying the Golden Rule and walking a mile in my shoes before you throw out pronouncements. If you have not been where I have been, you should thank God above and pray for your heart to enlarge with more compassion to those who have, instead of putting us down more.
I love both my parents as well, but I cannot condone or wink at the things that have been done. I can’t pretend it was all fine and dandy. I tried doing that for years. It brought me more anguish of heart and made healing nigh impossible. When I stopped pretending about it, I began the healing process…which I am still continuing with.
Pretending that everything is A-OK when it’s not is one of the flaws within the Lord’s church. He didn’t intend for it to be this way, ever, and that’s why there are so many verses about sharing & bearing each other’s burdens, like Gal. 6:2 enjoins us. You can only pretend so far, and then you have to put the feelings somewhere. You have to have acknowledgement of the feelings and that they are real and valid. And that it is understandable to have the feelings, that you are not wrong or bad or evil because you do have them.
Otherwise, they will come out in unexpected and undesirable places. This has been seen over and over by those who do have the eyes of their hearts open to see such things.
I continue to pray for Mary, the children, and Dan and Diane, Mike and the rest of the Winkler family.
This is a response to Just another PK. Obviously from your comments you have endured a lot of pain, and my comments were not made to make that pain worse. My only concern was that those of us on the outside of the situation should not make judgments on something of which we have no knowledge. I hope you are able to get past your anger someday. Wishing you the best.
People who don’t know the family should be aware that Matthew Winkler’s father, Dan Winkler is a true fundamentalist “Hail, Fire and Brimstone” preacher from the South. I know b/c I, along with many other Church members from the Beltline Church of Christ (Decatur, AL) were subjected to his guilt and fear ridden sermons for nearly 10 years. We are talking about a man who has serious, deep-seeded issues with control and power. Subjecting your family to this control and instilling fear in them and demanding they be “Perfect” as Christ was, is bound to backfire on you directly or indirectly somewhere down the road. I feel sorry for Mary and Matthew’s children now because they will have to endure the same upbringing with Mr. Winkler. The only difference is they’ll understand one day why their mother killed their father(the truth will come out) and let’s hope this destructive cycle of “Fear and Guilt Christianity”, which is still carried out by so many Christian men and women will soon come to an end. Does God find favor with Preachers who make the whole congregation feel like miserable sinners Sunday after Sunday? You have no idea how much damage was done at the Beltline CoC.
I think everyone brings his/her baggage to the winkler situation. MG considers Dan Winkler a “hell-fire brimstone,” etc. preacher and the damage he did. I wonder what MG would think of Jesus’ sermon in Mt. 23 or His cleansing of the Temple? Did Jesus have problems with guilt, fear, and control? Or could it be the case that those who have the guilt (Pharisees, etc.) lash out at those who expose their sin? Hmm…? Also, just another PK obviously has some issues which need worked out. But it amazes me that she knows what kind of person Matthew was and the kind of life Mary had. Does she really know that or is she just guessing because of her experience and the experience of some other PKs? She also attacks J Gallagher for “judging” her when Gallagher said we don’t really know exactly what happened. Then PK talks about the golden rule. Maybe just when it applies to how people treat her and not to how she treats others. Everyone seems to have his/her own baggage and filters this situation through it.
none of us know what went on in that home and until it is released all that can be done is speculate and gossip. I am as curious as anyone to know the truth about what happened. and if you want to get right down to it we may never know if it settles out of court then the specifics may never be released. I do know that good and bad happens everywhere. My family is very religious and what some would call clannish. I have freinds but we do not talk about the bad to just anyone. Keeping to our own is pretty much the philosophy. This can be bad sometimes for no one would belive some of the things if they were told due to the “perfect image” that is trying to be portrayed.
“Love one another”
Jesus
i dont think he was having an affair..etc..etc..i think quite simply she had post partum depression, needed to work, got a job as a substitute. other teachers said she was acting erradically at school and her behavior was bizarre. i think being a preacher’s wife has unbelievable pressure and he expected her to PERFORM and be perfect and she was in a BAD state of mind after coming home from being a substitute and was pissed off about her life and snapped and after it happened, she regretted it. i just don’t think there’s another woman or all that crap. nope. she just flipped out and he paid the price.
I just have to comment as a PK who did not have a bad experience growing up. I will admit that there were tremendous pressures put on myself and my family growing up, but I do not use that as an excuse to act badly as an adult or to blame everyone around me for anything that I have done in life. I admitt that my father was not abusive to my family and I feel terribly sorry for those PK’s who do have abusive father’s. But let’s all remember….this sort of thing does not JUST happen in preacher’s families. Why is it that we are so amazed by this story. If in fact Matthew was abusive or any of the other things that people are speculating about…are there not men in the business world who are exactly the same? Are there not father’s out there who are presidents of companies that appear to be “perfect” in their lives as well, but then are abusive to their kids and family at home and no one knows about it. Why is everyone acting as if this has something to do with the “cofc”. I grew up with a preacher Dad who had his faults and was not perfect, but he was a wonderful father. While i know that there are some bad preacher’s out there lets not tag all preachers as being horrible. There are so many abusive men in the world but people seem to find this story so interesting just because he was a preacher. Would you care so much if Matthew had been a business man and Mary had done the same thing? Probably not. I feel for all of the people involved in this case, but I just wish that people would stop blaming the “Church of Christ” for all of the problems. It could have happened to anyone.
PK what you wrote about Matt is a bunch of BS. Just because you were emotionally blah blah blah abused by your preacherman hubby doesn’t mean she was. You go on a big long rambling spiel trying to justify why Mary probably had no way out but to kill Matt. What a crock. So you knew Wendall, well big whoop. I knew both Matt and Mary and in my opinion, it’s Mary who was the emotionally disturbed abuser. It’s not always the man you know. BTW, are you sure you aren’t really Mary’s mama? Because honey no one else is gonna go to such lengths to try and make Matt look so bad and Mary so “poor sweet thang”. You make me sick.
Oh yes and MG, who I suspect is actually PK using another screenname, the Huntingdon CoC is hardly a fundamentalist church and Dan Winkler is in no way a hellfire and brimstone spewing preacher. The little girls have adjusted well to living with their granddaddy and are happy. Again, you must be Mary’s mama and you’re trying to post numerous messages on a variety of boards using different IDs, hoping to make Matt Winkler and his dad out to demonic control freaks so “poor wittle” Mary will look all pathetic and innocent. Do you think if you trick enough people with that garbage that some potential jurors will remember it and let her off the hook? I’m sure the trial will bring out that she is, and always was, the whacko who was jealous of all the admiration and attention her husband received.